The Existence of God on Prezi
St. Thomas Aquinas' Five Ways on Prezi
I was thoroughly intrigued by the topic of the existence of the universe. What intrigued me was that we said that in order to explain the universe, there had to be something that created it, which would be God. Scientifically, it was explained how energy and matter cannot be created out of nothing. In class, we said how the universe was not eternal and could not create itself, so that therefore, there had to be the God who created it.
So the universe cannot be created out of nothing. That's what we were saying. However, if you've ever heard of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, you'll know where I'm going with this. According to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, one cannot know both the position and the velocity of a particle accurately at the same time. The more one knows one, the less one knows about the other. The black hole information paradox was explained with this eventually resulting in the idea of Hawking Radiation. This is the proven idea that at the event horizon of a black hole, the point where nothing can escape, energy is radiated away. This also explains the loss of mass by a black hole. The problem that was solved was that there needed to be an outlet for this radiation. Without Hawking Radiation, we would know the exact position and velocity of spacetime at the event horizon of a black hole. But the HUP doesn't allow this. Now, if I take this to the creation of the universe, let's see what happens. We can't know the exact position and velocity of spacetime. If nothing existed, then we would know everything, the position and velocity of that nothingness. Therefore, there cannot be nothing. Therefore, it can be concluded that the universe is eternal because if it didn't exist, everything would be known, which violates HUP.
This means that the universe was created out of nothing because if nothingness existed, everything would be known, so that now, there can't be nothing and something has to exist. It is the creation of something out of nothing based on the idea that nothing cannot exist in the first place. The usual way we think of "nothing" is the absence of something. But since this absence of something is not allowed, something must be there. Therefore, something exists out of nothing. Something exists because nothing can't.
I also was interested by the fact that we said how there had to be something that created the universe, that it's an effect. And so we went up a level and said that God created the universe. At one point, someone asked, "What created God?" And the reply was that we believe the first mover was God, so that however many degrees you went up, God would always be the ultimate. Therefore, I don't see why we can't carry that down...to say that God is the universe and all of its parts, visible and invisible. What I'm saying is that I think it's perfectly plausible to say that the universe is God because if we ask who created the universe, we say God, but that is exactly what I explained a few sentences ago in which I said that if we ask who created God, we would say that however high we go, God is always the ultimate. Therefore, if we ask who explained the universe, we say God, but at that point, haven't we already gone up one level? Indeed we have. This means to me that it is perfectly acceptable to say that the universe was always in existence because God always exists because God is the universe.
Now this is all fine and dandy, but all that I'm saying is that there is no need for someone or something to create the universe if God is the Universe, just as there is no need to ask, "Who created God," because all we would say is that our God is that first mover. So in this case, there is no need to say something created the universe because the Universe can be that first mover, God.
Just as a note: I don't particularly believe in one specific idea of God. If God created the universe, okay. Or if God is the Universe, okay again. I'm just trying to justify what existence he is.
P.S. Mr. Murray, if you've figured out an answer to that riddle, post it, I'll let you know if it's right. Again, the riddle is (for anyone who wants to try): What is the only thing that does not depend on anything to exist?
Sophia..aka-knowledge, wisdom, logos, philo. If you are looking for scientific existentialism from me-- sorry, that is all I got...but in reality, how can anyone disprove my response.
Thank you for your cognisance to the realm of metaphysics. Well written!
Knowledge needs a medium to travel through and exist in, such as consciousness. Here's a hint, though: The answer is the most misunderstood concept in science and everyday life, but it exists all the time and is everywhere. We experience it every day.
If you are going completely scientific...the answer is time. Theologically it is "the WORD" "logos" "sophia" which actually creates time.
Mike maybe the reason we can see God or the beauty of his creation is because we look at him each day. We see the miracles that the doctors perform each day to keep those people alive just a bit longer so loved ones have just one more day. That the single parent who works two jobs and has to cook each night still has time to tuck her kids in and read them a story. The people that bring one more smile into this world and one more moment that is the existence of God and he is in everything that this world is. What if MIke that the existence of God is idea and question that keeps us looking and learning about him? That the existence of God is to teach us about ourselves the world and how we see it all fit together?
the Universe is not external, being proven Mike.
"Therefore, it can be concluded that the universe is eternal"
Mike- I truly respect all your knowledge and I find it very admirable how in depth and thoughtful this response is. However, faith and knowledge are two very different things. You cannot rely solely on your knowledge and scientific principles to see God because there is so much more to Him than just that. There is proof God exists, and I myself am a believer in Him; however, I find it almost impossible to put God into words, and I certainly could not justify Him in a scientific manner. God is beyond our comprehension. There are just some things that we, as humans, will never fully understand about Him until he has revealed himself to us. In order to experience God's revelation though, we MUST have faith. As humans, I believe our greatest challenge is accepting our undeniable worldly limitations and just having believing in those things that we cannot see or fully prove in this life. God is real. Forget all the science and math. One day it won't matter how much God's people knew about black holes and quantum physics. What will matter is if we had faith and believed in a God who believes in us and loves us no matter what.
Mike, I really love your idea of "God as the universe." It actually reminds me of a fiction I read once about a Classics major whose tutor tackled the question of true beginnings and endings. To paraphrase one particular scene from this story, the student's tutor explains that nothing really begins--to which the student countered that things begin all the time and there wouldn't BE anything if nothing began. The tutor replies by asking rhetorically when the student had "begun." He goes on to explain that her genetic material came from dozens--hundreds--maybe more other people--and all of this code existed long before she did. And yet she is--in the flesh. She again counters that she began when the code came together to make her, but the wise tutor corrects her and instead calls it a merely different configuration.
From this scene I take some kind of comfort in connecting it to the idea that "God is the universe." To connect what we covered in class, it has been proven that material is never created or destroyed--just reused. Every human who has ever been "configured" has been reassembled from bits and pieces that made up the first stardust in the universe--and if God is innately the universe, it's nice to think that this being continues to exist in everything today.
Mike, you're very confident when it comes to your opinion on scientific theories. You're even confident enough to compete with your theology teacher. I admire your will to expose your knowledge, thank you. Anyway, what you explained was very interesting and well written. You talked about the position and velocity of particles. Are you saying that these particles have existed through an infinite amount of time? Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. You and I will never know. I really liked what you said about the possibility of God being the universe itself. That made me think a lot. Still I would have to say I disagree. If I were to never experience God's love or discover that every human has a purpose in life, I would agree one hundred percent. Science has yet to prove how Earth was created. Science also has yet to prove all sorts of other myths as well. In that case, maybe we need to put forth the effort in looking beyond science. Maybe you've already done that, but if you haven't, you'd be suprised as to what you discover.
You know, my freshman year I considered the thought of God being everything, existing in everything. I sat outside and took time just to think for myself. I don't know how I long I was out there, but I truly saw the possibility that God is the Universe, or the parts/concepts of it that we do not comprehend or have discovered yet. This, being your comment and the idea that God is the universe, arrouses so many questions in your head, many of which contradict the teachings of the Church. However, if one just actually puts the time to think harder and deeper, then they can see the possibility that the teachings still apply when God is the Universe. Consequently, your comment combines both science and God, a sight that is limited to such a small amount of people in our world. Many people see it as either or, or most of one and some of the other, but this concept truly intertwines both science and Church together.
Two aspects of the lesson that stood out to me was the comparison of God to oxygen and the realization that the cause is always greater than the effect.
We believe because we are told that oxygen is in the air. However, we cannot physically touch the oxygen in the air. Thus, why is there a hesitation to believe in God if his existence is similar to the oxygen in the air? Human life cannot exist without oxygen. Human life cannot exist without God. Science has manipulated our understanding. Science confirms the presence of untouchable oxygen but refuses to confirm the existence of an untouchable God. Science refuses to accept that some external uncaused first cause is superior to all of the theories of the scientifically created universe. It is faith that places the existence of God above science.
I have never fully pondered the idea, however, I now firmly agree that the cause is always greater than the effect. In all aspects of life, it takes a conviction of heart to carry out an operation. It is the courage to act that exceeds the effect of the action. For instance, the hole-in-one is an effect of the swing. Without grasping the club, taking a swing, and striking the ball one would never have the opportunity to achieve the hole-in-one. In connection to our faith, conquering the doubt surrounding the existence of God is greater than practicing belief. Being able to commit to God in faith in a world of skeptics is a greater feat than being a follower of Christ. It is harder to become the follower than it is to be the follower because once you are committed to God; He forever remains on your side. Therefore, when wagering on His existence, bet God, because if you die and are correct, you will live eternally, but you refute His existence and are right you have nothing.
I agree with both of those viewpoints. First, there are scientific things that are untouchable, invisible, unexplainable. God is one of those. So I agree on that and I also agree that you said God is a being above science based on the fact that we are below his existence. Therefore, we have no way of even knowing how he exists with our limited mind, so we'll never be able to explain him. Second, I agree that the cause of something is greater than its effect. One can see this in everyday life. If one never decides to do something, the effect will not occur, so it is necessary to have a cause. Therefore, the cause is greater.
Kyle: I like the added touch of Blaise Paschal with your description of the "wager"
I really liked your last point about wagering God's existence. I think I've heard that somewhere before, but it's so true. I would much rather believe in his existence, and live my life like I awknowledge that existence, and be right. Even if I wasn't right, I think I would have had a much happier life than someone who went their whole life not believing. Because that person felt that they were living for nothing, that they were there without a purpose. At least I would've lived like I had something (or someone) to be living for.
I really liked how you said that last point about choosing God. I've never really heard someone put it into that perspective. I completely agree with what you are saying. Right or wrong, believing in God has a positive affect on most lives. There are so many more positive aspects to believing in God than there is not believing in God.
Kyle- As I read your post I couldnt stop reading until the very end. I liked the section of the first paragraph where you talk about science 'warping' our beliefs and untouchable oxygen vs. an untouchable God. Ultimately God is untouchable and we aren't able to see him around us but if we believe in him and his presence you have that last piece to the puzzle. like science takes it to a certain point where as our faith and God are beyond that.
How can you draw the conclusion that science has manipulated our understanding of G-d? Oxygen and G-d are totally separate things.
You say that science has proved oxygen exists with out seeing it and that is a metaphor for belief in G-d, but you also say that science is trying to manipulate our understanding by denying the existence of G-d. You are attacking the thing that you are using to prove your point. We should believe in G-d for our faith, we should not have to prove it with science, but have faith.
Also The cause is not always greater than the effect. for example if you flick one domino, the rest will also fall down. so what is greater, one domino falling or all of them.
I really like the Oxygen reference. Its true that just because we can't see it, doesn't mean its not there. Just like God.
One concept that stood out to me was that the universe could not have been created out of nothing, therefore it had to be created by some "ultimate creator." I had never really explored any of these concepts in depth, I've always just kind of accepted questions like these as things I cannot answer, things I won't know until one day I die and go to heaven (if that even happens, and that's an entirely seperate arguement). I thought it was really interesting to have scientific knowledge that proves that the Universe could not have possibly created itself, and that it wasn't always there either. I've always believed that a higher power had created it, but never understood why it was that I believed this.
What I like about this "ultimate creator" concept is that it can be universally accepted by people and still not be considered "God," if a person doesn't believe in God. God is just the name we give to this being that always existed, and who created everything. I think we can believe in this higher power even without getting into the whole mess of religious beliefs. Just simply accepting that there is something out there, at least I think, is better than having nothing to believe in at all.
Haley- I really liked this aspect as well. I myself always had unanswered questions so I liked how the science of it all also correlated with the religious aspects, and that it leaves room for you to believe in a high power even if you do not necessarily believe in God. I think that if more people got to look at it this way like we did in class, we could all be united in the belief that there is a "ultimate creator" or some supreme force and the rest of it could be left to the individuals' interpretation to decide whether it is God for them or not.
Haley, i really liked your viewpoint, especially when discussing the idea of the 'universal creator' rather then a God. I feel that using that idea can help more people become excepting of the concept, if not the label we Catholics put on it. I myself can agree with the fact that we just merely accept the answer to questions that we all have. I think we all do that because as children, we are taught that that is merely how things are, and we must just accept them.
Haley, I really like how you tried to not even make it about religion and just called it a higher power. It makes the idea able to be accepted by people who are not necessarily religious, but need something to believe in. Sometimes people just want to understand how all this came to be, and to think that someone or something greater than all of us is out there could be the answer they were looking for. I know that it is something that puzzles a lot of people to a point where they just want some explanations.
Haley, your explanation of some "ultimate creator" is great because it leaves the thought of a higher power more open ended. It can allow for others who do not necessarily believe in God to atleast believe in that greater being without bringing a religious aspect into play. Also, when you say that you have always believed in a higher power who created the universe but never understood why I can relate to. Although I feel as though people believe that because that is was they are told. I feel as though a pattern begins where from generation to generation this belief is just passed down yet no one really knows why exactly they believe it.
Haley, i completely agree with your idea of a higher power. For the first time thinking in depth on this concept of who or what actually created the universe, it becomes more evident that it is obviously something way above mankind. This higher power or "ultimate creator" can be perceived as something or someone completely different for anyone. I would be curious to ask someone that doesn't believe in any "ultimate creator", what they believe created the universe out of absolutely nothing.
Like everyone else, I really liked your take on God and a higher power. I believe that there is a higher power, I just don't know if it's "God." There has to be something that began it all (going into the whole cause and effect thing), a greater mind much more complex than ours. Since it's hard to prove that the universe just "began" without any greater power, yet it is hard to believe that God created the universe, I believe that some greater power, maybe religious or scientific, started everything. It kinda blows my mind.
I felt the exact same way you did when listening in class. I had never really thought about how the universe had been created. It's such a large concept to try to wrap your mind around. There are just so many parts in the universe that had to be created. Some are so large that just their size is hard to grasp, along wiht the way that they function and thrive. Others, like humans and animals are so small compared to objects such as planets, stars, or even solar systems, but they still have so much detail and have their own ways of thriving and functioning. I truly can't even understand much of what happens in the universe, the outstanding size of it, the way it is positioned, and much more. I have many questions about it, such as, "Is there other life out there besides the life on Earth?" That is why i believe there must be a God. I can't even unerstand the universe, yet some being was both intelligent and powerful enough to create this.
I like what Mike said in his comment that the question what created the universe, was the universe everything in it as we see in just younger. Was there some occurrence that out of nothing there came into existence the world as we know it. I think that the existence of God and how it all works together is that God is everything there ever is and there is going to be, he is the past and future he in the world we live in. The idea that the world we live in is dying based upon the fact that the sun which is the main reason that our life can exist on the Earth. What happens in the next year maybe nothing but eventually the universe will drift apart our sun will go out what happens then. Does the universe just stop and go back to what is was before the big bang or whatever you like to believe? Does the world just stop in the same way that it starts? Will the world just go back to being nothing, We are dust and dust we shall return? What if God is the universe that we live in, he is in everything around us we are parts of him and he is us. When the world dies does it just start anew and the planets start all over again like after the great flood. Does the world just repeat until we as people understand and get it right, or does the cycle of the world just repeat?
One concept that really stood out for me was that of the "cause and effect." It stood out for me because either way, something caused this life we are living in this world. It explains that something or someone started the universe. I was a little mind boggled at the fact that whatever did start it is eternal and uncaused. How can something not have a cause? Especially because everything else is based on cause and effect? How can there be this amazing eternal force or being that created the universe that is uncaused? I can't wrap my mind around that. I believe that this is why a lot of people struggle with the idea of God. They can not accept that he was uncaused and eternal. They believe there has to have been something before him. I can not comprehend this, but I have faith. Those who dismiss his existence because of this concept of cause and effect must not have faith either.
Diana- I firmly agree with your point in that individuals struggle with the existence of God because they have a hard time believing that God is the uncaused first cause. Our society is so skeptical in believing without seeing. Science inquiry strives to explain all the natural phenomenon of the world. Although successful in many cases science struggles in explaining God’s existence. This is where faith enters. “Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.” (John 20:29) One has much to gain by committing to God, it is tough, but it can have the most rewarding effect in the end.
diana- I love how you addressed the issue of the fact that if everything has a cause well then why does the unknown cause, that caused the universe to form, not have a cause. I can understand skepticism when trying to believe that there's an unknown, greater than us, force that has no cause but a massive effect. Faith is key when it comes to this concept of cause and effect and the true believers can understand there was something greater than any one of us that created the universe
I agree with Diana and how everything has to have a cause and effect, and it is a little hard to comprehend at times. There IS and unknown cause and why does that unknown cause not have a cause before that. Which also goes back to when Diana said that she can't explain this, but she has faith. That is what I believe it all comes down to. Just because you cant see something or physically touch it, doesnt mean it's not there.
dianna, what you said is exactly how I feel about the whole subject of effect and cause. it's really amazing to think about how it all came about. you are right that the only way to understand it is faith. it almost hurts me to think about something bigger then the universe.
I do not agree, like I say, time does not exists before the universe. Creation is an action involve with time, since there is no time, there is no creation. Conclusion, the infinite small point which explode the universe is the uncause of everything, God. We all know ther is no space or dimensions before the universe and it is hard accept, al so is hard to accept there is no time before.
Diana- I believe that our faith will help us understand this. I, as well, can not wrap my head around the concept that the eternal force/being that created the universe is uncaused. But that is why we have faith and can trust in God. If we trust in God, we will understand. But I believe that we will not fully understand until we meet God face to face in heaven and can ask him ourselves. For now, we just have to believe.
Diana, reading your comment made me think on the same level as yourself. i like the idea that with science, any scientist will say that with cause there comes an effect. But what person can explain the cause of us being here. Us finding ourselves is a cause for a great effect to come. we are here by something greater and by simple science because we are here we have a purpose to complete the statement of cause and effect. we make the effect
Diana- I really like your last sentence and I also agree with it because faith is believing what you cannot see or hear and if people reject his existence then they do not have faith. I also wonder if these people have another concept to prove his existence.
Diana- I shared the same thoughts and ideas when hearing of this also. It almmost drives me crazy thinking that there is a power (God) out there that has always been and always will be. I think that is where a lot of us believers may always have an unansweered question, no matter how much we believe there is always a question in my mind of how it could possibly be that God has always existented and why. Sometimes i just stop from whatever i am doing during the day and ask myself, why do i exist and who put me here? Though i don't have the answer to that question, i have a deep rooted faith in God that there is a much higher being out there that knows each one of us and loves each one of more than w will ever know.
Diana- a completely agree with everything you stated. I also was thinking that in class, how can there be a higher power that always exisited? It drives crazy to think that God has always exisited and always will. sometimes i'll just take a step back from my day, and ask myself, why am i here and what purpose do i have? it is weird to think that something has always exisited.we are people who are used to the circle of life, where you are born and then die. for me, i know, i will never fully understand how it is possible for God to have always existed, but that is where my faith comes in, and trusting that God loves us more than we will ever know.
i agree with you diana. i think people struggle to believe in God because the universe was created by a being or eternal force that was uncaused. I think the way to over come this is to have faith because we cannot possibly understand so many things in the universe because God created it and he created us, so how can you out smart your creator.
Diana - I love your last sentence, it speaks the truth. Faith is believing regardless of what we understand. We are only human, I don't think God wants us to understand everything.
diana- i like the fact that you mentioned the cause and effect because it makes sencse that everything on earth of cause and effect.I agree with the fact that people struggle with the idea of a God. In my opinion , cause and effect can be explained while God's cause cannot so i believe in cause and effect but not exactly God or any one god, but i do believe that some kind of higher power exists.
Many concepts from this class stood out to me but one stood out to me more than anything. The concept of cause and effect really caught my attention. The fact the everything has a cause no matter what except for God is something i never thought about. Something caused everyone and everything on this Earth, but we do not know how God got here. That's what makes him so powerful. He was the one who created where we are today and loves us unconditionally. Even though I would love to know what caused him, some things are better not answered. If we all knew God, we wouldn't have to believe and believing plays a major roll in our faith.
Meghan- I agree completely with your statements especially when you mention faith at the end. The entire of existence of God is based on faith, not on facts. So many people want concrete evidence of God but in the end all we have is hope and faith.
I agree with you Meghan. I also could not understand who caused God to be here since He is the greatest and all powerful. Your last line really stands out to me because you're right, if we knew God and where He came from our believing wouldn't be how it is today.
One concept that stood out to me from our class discussion was the fact that scientist can explain everything up until the point of how the universe was first created. There's so much scientific evidence of everything on this earth, yet one cannot explain how the effect of the universe's creation came to being. We discussed in class the concept of cause and effect. Everything on this earth has a cause for it in some way shape or form, yet all we can say about the earth's creation is that something so much greater than us was the cause, but then that brings up the question of what caused that? If everything has a cause, why didn't he she or it not have a cause? The smartest scientist cant answer these questions. So while scientists study and explain the cause and effects of things on the earth, they leave the creation of the universe for one's faith.
Jill- I completely agree with what you said about scientists having no proof of the universe's creation, only what's on Earth. I said the same thing about the concept of "cause and effect". Something had to of happened, aside from science, for the universe to be created and it is up to people to believe what they want about this issue.
Jill - I complete agree with what you said. In my opinion, scientists always think they know everything and all there is to our universe. However, the fact is that they can't even explain the source of the entire universe. This is why science and faith go together. Science does not make complete sense without faith and faith can be simplified through science.
Jill, I agree with your last statement about how the creation of the universe is left for one's faith. We must have faith that some "cause", even greater than the universe, is present. This faith helps us believe in God without ever physically seeing him.
One concept in this lesson that really stood out to me is that no effect can be greater then the cause, which is a topic i never really thought about before. Also, i found it extremely surprising that scientists have been able to prove that the universe couldn't have created itself. This was such a surprise to me since religion and science often go head to head in this sort of idea. Also, since everything on earth has been shown to have an effect, i found it shocking that scientists haven't found any cause for the universe yet. I found this entire lesson interesting, mainly because i had never thought about any of this in this way before it was presented to me.
I agree, the whole lesson was interesting because it was something many of us have never really thought about. We're just here, people have always been here. So it was surprising when I really started to consider how the universe began and if it could be strictly a scientific situation, or if God really did create everything like we've been taught.
I agree with Gabbie. I find it very hard to believe that scientists have yet to find the cause of the universe. With all the technology and smart people in this world you would think that this concept would be at the forefront in their research. I think that it is this fact alone that can prove the existance of God. If science were to say that the universe was created out of nothing or that it had been there forever, my faith would be in question. But the fact that they have yet to prove how the universe started speaks the existance of God.
One major thing that stood out to me in our classroom discussion was trying to comprehend the fact that the world, solar syste, and all together the universe was created by one ultimate being. Who? What? The only explination i have is God. Science helps prove certain facts that God is real, because science can only trace so far back, and explain so much, until you have to look at everything and say to yourself only a being such as God could create all of this.
Shireen. I also was baffled by this part in class. I like how your only explanation is God when talking about who created the earth. I agree with this statement in full. I also agree with when you addressed the topic of science and God. I believe that science helps elaborate on the creation story and how God was the creator of the world. I loved the last sentence - only a more, all - powerful person/"thing" could have been the cause of this effect.
Shireen, I wrote about alot of the same concept you wrote about. Their is only one explanation to the ground we walk on, the air we breathe, or the atmosphere we live in. When it comes to comparing science and religion, as a catholic I believe religion wins. God Is the only being that has the ability to create such beautiful lives and universes. I really like how you end your post with saying how God is somewhat at the top of the pyramid. He is the only one with an exceptional amount of power.
I feel the same way Shireen. Science can prove a lot and it has many good ideas about how everything was created but once it gets to a certain point, all they can do is guess. I don't believe we will ever know how the universe was created because it is way over our heads. All we can do is try to understand to the best of our ability and be open to learning more.
One topic that really stood out to me during our class on Friday was the comparison of God to air. We believe we need air to live, but we cannot see, feel, or grab this theory. We also cannot feel or see God, but we question His existence. Why is it that we question God's existence, but we firmly believe that there is air all around us when we cannot feel or see it? I never thought about God in this manner until this class. I have friends who ask me why my belief in God is so strong when no one is "for sure" He is real. I begin to explain the ways i sense His existence from day to day, but it is never good enough for them. This concept of air is a perfect explanation to back up my belief in God. This discussion got me thinking about the world, God, and the existence/creation of mankind through a whole different lens. It is hard to put into words how I witness God from day to day, but this is the closest/best explanation I've gotten yet.
Thank you Mr. Murray! This was a truly inspirational class discussion.
Melissa, I agree with you completely in what you are saying here. I too have people who question how I know God exists in my life, and they are never satisfied either. I agree that this comparison to air is a perfect explanation, and it is also the strongest explanation I have received in regards to the existence of God.
I truly agree with you that we should believe in God on the concept of how we believe we have air. We were raised on the concept that we have air surrounding us but we cant see it or breath it or even taste it so why should we question that God is always surrounding us. We were also raised that God created the world in seven days but took the seventh day off for rest. If we were raised on that then why should we question if God existed. He obviously exists if he made the planet we live on and the air he also created.
Hey Melissa, I like how you brought up the comparison between God and air. It totally reminded me of the movie: A Walk To Remember because the main character talks about how she can feel the wind, but she can't see it and she has the views about God. Though God isn't a being in the real world, we can spiritually feel his presence. I agree with you that sometimes it's difficult to explain to others how someone can believe in something without seeing it. I guess that's where faith comes into the picture. I think when we realize that there is more to us than just a body and a brain, that we have a soul inside of us, we are more able to believe that there is a larger force or spirit guiding us. This is God to me.
I like the comparison between air and God too Melissa. Something unseen and untouchable, but essential for life is a great way to explain God. It also gives me hope because noone doubts whether air exists, so it might be the same for God's case one day.
I can definitely understand your strong connection between the proof of air vs proof of God. I think this kind of simile is philosophical though. I suppose this is where faith plays a role, but air can definitely be proven and measured while God isn't necessarily a fact written in text books. Obviously I respect your faith, and everyone else's, but I personally still find it difficult to fully believe in the one God that you're describing.
Melissa, I think that it is truely great that no matter what others say you don't let it affect how you see God. also I like how you brought up the comparison between God and air too it is a great way to get people to think about the true existance of God.
One point that really stood out to me during class was the cause and effect nature of our universe. I find it fascinating how almost everything we know we can identify a cause and effect and that everything in our universe has a cause. What is even more amazing though, is to imagine what the original cause of the universe. It is kind of overwhelming to think about what started the universe and it would only make sense that a God-like entity created it. Also since no effect can ever be greater than the cause we can never become as great as our creator and perhaps never intelligent enough to fully understand him/her/it.
I agree with Billy in that the idea of the cause being greater than the effect is a strong message. This idea of looking for the cause of the world and people is what fuels science, and sends them out farther and farther from this world into the universe. As science takes us further in space, however, it is wild to think that the cause was here on earth at one point. That cause being Jesus.
One concept that really stood out to me was Prima Facie because it can be interpreted in so many different ways, depending on the person and their beliefs. In a case of law, there is physical proof that decides whether or not a person is innocent and tells how a crime happened. In discussing the creation of the universe and how we came to be, some people BELIEVE there is physical evidence while some do not.
The people who refuse to believe in God and the creation of the universe believe that there is factual scientific truth to our existence. However, the people who do believe in God and are certain that He is our creator BELIEVE that there is proof to this theory. I believe there are valid points on both sides, but who is to say who is correct? It all comes down to what a person believes, whether or not they believe in God or believe that he created every aspect of this world.
Allie i agree with you. It is weird how the same idea and concept can be interpreted in different ways depending on the topic it is applied to. I can see how it is difficult to deice who is right when both sides have evidence. But it does truly come down to what that person believes.
One concept that particularly stood out to me in class was how the universe was created. I had never clearly understood this topic before, but I had heard several different theories about how it may have happened. Through this class it was clear to me that the universe had to be an effect of something because according to the First Law of Thermodynamics, neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed. I had never thought about this before and I did not realized that matter and energy can convert into each other, but the total amount in the universe must remain unchanged forever. It then became clear to me that this has to prove the existence of God. Without a higher power, the universe would not exist, because without a cause, there is no effect.
The concept that struck me was actually two concepts that you put together, but at different times. You talked about the origin and the universe and how someone or something had to create it in order for it to be. Then, you brought in cause and effect and how in order to make something happen you have to have a cause behind the effect. So, this to me pretty much gives the answer that something else obviously has to be out there in order to cause the universe to be created. It could be anything to anyone, it all depends on how you choose to live out your beliefs, but no matter how you spin this argument, in order to have the universe exist a higher power must have done something to create it.
A very good point, Without a higher power there is no way that anything could exist. How would the universe have come to be had there not been a higher power to start it all?
I completely agree with this point. Without the existence of a higher power, the Universe or just anything in general could not exist. With my beliefs I do think that God is the higher power that started everything. Without God the whole idea of cause and effect would mean nothing and none of us would be here in the first place.
One concept that stood out to me in the class was the comparison of God to air. We were taught to believe that air is their but we cant see it, touch it, or grab the theory of the air is their. We also cant see God or feel him but we question his existence still. Even though we can't see the air of feel it but we believe that it is their but we question the existence of God, Why is that? We believe we have air that surrounds us so we should believe that God is around us. The class and Mr. Murray talking about the concept of air we should be able to use that in the case of God that we should believe that God surrounds us. God is a wonderful leader God created the world and the air that we supposedly breath. We should believe that God is always surrounding use like the air is that we breath.
Chris: I totally agree with the comparison of God to air. How even though we can't see it/God, we just suppose the air is there since someone told us that. People should put more trust in God being around us, cause that's what he is there for. He is part of our everyday life whether we realize it or not.
...forgot to put my last name above...my bad
I hate to be a pessimist but... We can prove that nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon are present around us. I feel like the comparison to air is just silly. Air is just matter in a gaseous form. I understand the concept that God is like air but for logical minds it is hard to comprehend this philosophical view of God. Faith doesn't make us believe in air, science does. I am not denying the existence of God, I just am not a fan of the air comparison.
The purpose of the comparison of air is to explain the logic that not all things are visible to the human eye but we believe that things of this capacity are present. You might be able to prove the reality of oxygen, but cannot prove the first cause of oxygen, and the name that man gave to this element. Hence, I will call "oxygen" God's Breath and this cannot be disproved.
one topic that stood out for me the most was the comparison or realtionship between God and science. I believe and know that God and religion do not go hand in hand. Yeah, God created science and what not, but the power of God is indescribable. Science cannot describe when or how the Earth was created, but God can. I personally cannot describe what or who God is but neither can scientists. They can give us numerous theories and textbooks to read but they do not know or understand the power of God because their science blocks them from truly knowing the deeper meaning of God's love and power. The comparison i used while listening to this conversation was what came first the chicken or the egg. Its almost the same thing what came first the earth or God. Everyones answer is different depending on their beliefs.
I completely agree with you, Kendra. God cannot be compared to science. In my eyes, God is omnicient. Science is not. No one on this earth knows "everything". But i do believe that God does.
I thought of the chicken and the egg also. We will never know which came first unless God tells us personally. I do believe that God is an ever present figure but that science does involve religion sometimes. Science proves something exists but cannot prove Gods existence. I do agree with you though that everyone is different depending on their beliefs.
One concept that really stood out to me in our class discussion is the cause and effect principle. This principle states that every material effect must have an adequate antecedent. Therfore something or someone had to create the universe. Though going back to the Big Bang Theory their was one point where time did not exist. This place in histroy is called the point of singularity. That means that someone had to have caused the Big Bang Theory which led to an ever expanding universe of space and matter. The only part I want to know the answer to is whom or what is the eternal energy soruce whom created the universe. THis fact has puzzled scientists and no one has a clear explanation on this subject besides having faith. Until scientifically proven God exists i will still remain undecided in my theological views of God.
Elaborating on Mike's view of the cause and effect principle I was intrigued on what his thoughts were. He explains that the universe is God and since the universe has always existed therefore God has always exsited. Touching on the fact that he is hte eternal energy soruce their is no solid evidience that he exists. We as humans can only specualte on the first mover in the existence of the universe. The only aspect i would change in his reasoning in the term God. I would replace this with the phrase the eternal energy source as we do not know as humans if God exists, because their is no scientific evidence. Finally, we as indivudals can only have faith in God as their is nothing else otherwise to prove his existence.
A view point that stood out to me last class was the idea of the universe having some higher power, that would create such a vast expansion filled with secrets we haven't even begun to unravel and search through. That idea of these higher powers leads into a question pretty quickly; where would the hierarchy eventually cut off? Something like this isnt available to be readily discovered at one's disposal, so little is actually known now. Wrapping my brain around the concept is mind blowing.
Myles, I completely agree. I struggle with the thought that there is a cut off point. Where DOES it stop? Could there be a being greater than God? The knowledge we posses at this point in time is so minuscule in comparison to what there is left to learn.
The way I see it, who really cares. When we meet a person, do we dwell on what kind of person their father is? No, not in most situations at least. If there is someone bigger than God, perhaps some sort of father or whatever, why should we care. We're taught to trust in the all loving and powerful God that cares and loves us. For all we know, this higher "father" could be some sort of abusive father and that's why the God we love has been created; to love us and show us what his creator/father never gave him. We've grown to trust and love the God that loves us, so anything beyond him is purely curiosity, but not necessarily important.
The concept that stood out most to me in class was the science behind the whole universe being created. Whether it being some unexplained scientific occurrence, or God forming the universe it is truly magnificent either way. Scientists try to explain how such things could have been created when they still have no idea. Maybe that is God's point, to not have anyone simply understand the formation of his masterpiece. His powers have no limits, and we shouldn't try to understand them. He left some things unanswered so that He could explain His ultimate plan for everything later in life. God is the source of all things, the cause of all the effects in the world.
This discussion and the Prezi powerpoints made me feel so small in comparison to the mightier forces working around us, God in particular. I think the topics of cause and effect and the universe not being able to create itself were the ones that really got me thinking. They made me question my purpose of why i'm here and how I got here. It's somewhat difficult to even think about something bigger and more powerful creating something so vast like the Universe. It's mind-boggling, pretty much. Discussions like these help me deepen my faith in a higher power. If we think about the ever-expanding Universe, it's hard not to believe that there is something bigger than us out there. God is the ultimate cause and we are the effect. The effect will never be greater than the cause, so therefore there has to be something greater than us.
Sheila, I agree with everything you said. How can a person not feel small in a universe so big? That we were put here on a planet and in a universe that was created by something higher than us. It is amazing at how much was created too and all that continues to be created. So much is going on in the universe and it is all happening for a reason, but what is the reason? Why is all of this taking place? Someone is making this happen, some force.It's a tough subject to grasp but it's definitely one that makes everyone think.
The idea about the universe and cause and effect really stuck out to me during the class discussion. It made me think about the impossibility for the universe and the solar system to just appear one day on its own. There has to be an explanation for the creation of everything in this world. The law of cause and effect proves that something must have happened in order for the universe to be here. God must have been the one to do so because the effect is never greater than the cause. There is no "right" answer as to what cause the creation of the universe, only scientific theories. Therefore I believe that a superior being (God) must have.
within only a few short classes the things mr Murray has been talking about have got me thinking. he is able to compare God to air. we can't see either but we believe they are there. talking about te beginning before the beginning and how everything came about completely blows my mind. you want to know how why and when? but the answers are out of our grasp. scientists try to say that they have all the knowledge and answers to the why, the how, and the when, but they really can't explain where the first bacteria or organism came from. its like asking about which came first the egg or the chicken? everyone has a reason for why the chicken was first or why the egg came first. it's one of those questions you'll have to ask God because even with science you might never know.
Olivia- your opinion is one that I find comfortably agreeable. Science is a study of the universe based solely on human observation, interpretation, and what we can gather from our own way of looking at things in a logical manner. But, what science can't answer is indeed, who created the first chicken that laid the first egg or who created the very first egg that hatched the chicken and started this paradox. There would have to be one, eternal constant that had to set creation in motion, I'm sure of it. So, in regard to your comment, I must say I appreciate your input.
One thing that stood out from our class conversation was the discussion in which we talked about the possibility that the “air” that we are breathing might be the “breath of God”. As Mr. Murray stated in class, we can’t see oxygen. I am breathing right now but i'm unable to see exactly what I am breathing. Scientifically it can’t be proven that we are in fact breathing air. Another concept that stood out from class was cause and effect. Seconds before Mr. Murray knocked down the podium I had noticed that he had closed the folder that was on the podium and set it on the desk. Because of this observation I was able to infer that he was going to knock down the podium before that actually occurred. Something caused me to think this way. Was it my brain? Maybe. But something had to create my brain and cause me to have that ability. No matter what the scenario is, there is always a single cause. And in any situation it can be traced back to God and his existence. Out of the entire 90 minute block one thing that Mr. Murray said stood out, “we are living on an anchor of faith.” God is good. All the time.
The huge debate between if God exists is that whether empirical evidence the only way to proof a thing. In my opinion, no empirical evidence does not mean one thing is not true. However, if there is one thing, as Einstein said, then all the hypothesis would be wrong. Since there is no empirical evidence, it is not 100% sure weather God exists in person, nor can say God does not exists because currently nothing can say God exists. I believe in the cause and effect of the universe and there should be something created the universe and the laws of physic. However, there is nothing that create the universe. This does not mean universe is eternal. The phrase create the universe is wrong. As we know everything is made after the universe. Scientifically proven that it is a infinite small point which exploded, created our dimensions including time. Which means there is no time before the universe is creates. Create is a action, is a movement which time is involved. Since there is no time before the universe, how come create? There is no before the universe, there is nothing. The point, that is the uncause begining.
An idea that really stuck out to me from the lesson was the fact that the cause has to be greter than the effect. Although this is common sense it is a strong point. without the cause there would be no effect. Without an original cause there would be nothing, so there has to be a higher power, there has to be a God. Without the existance of a higher power ( a greater cause) there would be nothing( an effect). This can easily refute what many scientists and athiests say. Without the higher power how can anything exist and how can anything happen?
I agree with this because this idea proves the existance of a higher power. I think this is a good way to explain to a person that does not believe in God, that He does exist. Without God, it would have been impossible for anything to have been created. The universe could not have just started itself out of nothing. This idea gives many facts that help myself reassure that God is more powerful than anything and can help me in times when I need him.
I agree with you, Greg, because there has to be some higher form of life in existance in order to create such a perfect environment for human life to occur. Someone might refute that life has evolved throughout time but the consciousness that humans experience cannot be a trait acquired through evolution. It can only logically be given to us from a higher being, God, who has the true divine power and knowledge to bestow such a valuable gift upon us,
One thing from our class conversation that I kept thinking about was the opening discussion about "The Players." With the players being Atheists, Agnostics, Skeptics, and Theists, every Catholic should be a Theist. However, there are so many people in this world that claim they are Catholic, but fit the description of a Skeptic. And even though a Catholic should be a Theist, it is not hard to see why they would be more of a Skeptic. Today's world is obsessed with proof; if a person doesn't see it, experience it, or see what they consider to be hard evidence, they are likely to deny it. This habit of skepticism is in every person, and is linked to our natural instincts. In order to turn from Skeptics to Theists, people must turn to the evidence present; the Bible. The Bible has every bit of proof a person should need for the existence of God. It has the names of the writers of each book in the New Testament, the locations where the events written about took place, and the relative time of each story, just like a newspaper. Yet, many people will believe the newspaper before the Bible, which is a tough concept to think about. People believe scientists and news reporters because they have their sources. But doesn't the priest have his own sources that back his beliefs in God? The Bible, "Josephus", and documented miracles are all proof of God's existence. This proof is WHY priests and other strong Catholics have such a firm belief. I have come to the conclusion that it is both easy, yet hard, to turn a Skeptic into a Theist. Simply give them the sources and proof. However, they have to be willing to give it a chance. Anybody can thoughtlessly read over Scripture and honestly confess they got nothing out of it. Rather, the Catholic Skeptic must be open to what the Bible has to say, and try to understand why what he or she is reading is hard evidence.
I agree with you Alex. Your first couple of sentences are true as to how all Catholics should be Theist but many of them are put into the category of Skeptics. Yes I agree that in today's world more people are believing what they hear in the newspapers rather than in the Bible. Many people do not even read the Bible because they either think its to confusing or to long rather then the newspaper which is summarized for you. I think that many people should open the Bible like you said and try to understand it and what its saying.
Alex, I completely agree with your emphasis of the Bible in becoming a person filled with faith. A willingness to read and comprehend the Bible as a centrality of our faith is essential to growing as a religious, faith-filled person. I also like your explanation of how to turn a Skeptic into a Theist. The reality of skepticism is shock to most Catholics, and Christians of all kinds, for that matter. I feel that every person goes through a cycle of skepticism and theism throughout the changes that occur in their lives, and this cycle is inherently linked to the constant need for proof that you mentioned early on in your post.
As I was looking through these comments it was obvious what stuck in everyone's mind, the cause and effect theory. This was obviously the main message of the lesson and it is something that I have brought up numerous times in my life. No matter how far back you go, there has to be a beginning. Many people do not believe in a god or higher power because it can not be proven while there are so many things in science that are not proven that we perceive as fact. Science has helped us learn that nothing can be created on its own thus in a way science has also proven the existence of a higher power. Those not acknowledging that existence are only contradicting themselves.
The one thing that stuck out to me during our class discussion was the idea of cause and effect. At first I was confused and really didnt understand it, but later comprehended it. No thing is the cause of itself, and effect is subordinate to its cause. The question that always comes to me is who caused the effect that some of us call creation? I do believe that God exists and he is the creator of our world. Some people would agree with me, and some won't. The universe did not cause itself, so God must have caused it. Without the cause, there would be no effect. The law of cause and effect tells us that something or someone must have done something for the universe to be here.
I completely agree Brittany. The universe and creation had to come from somewhere. And I believe that God created the universe. You're right, some people may disagree with us, but eventually they won't be able to trace things back to a specific source other than God.
One thing that really stuck out to me during the class discussion was the idea that God was the greatest cause and that if there was no God then there would be no effect due to a cause. You have to think, that if there was even such a thing as the Big Bang Theory, what caused it? The Big Bang could not have just occurred out of nothing, some being (God) had to have created those atoms that exploded and created the Universe. Without God nothing around us would be possible.
I completely agree with Mike. I definitely believe that the big bang happened because science can rpove that, but from the cause and effect aspoint, something had to crerate that little ball of energy that started it all. God created that I believe because that could not just have been formed by itself.
One concept that stood out to me was the idea of "cause and effect". The universe had to of had something to cause it to form. Therefore, the very first step in creating the universe must have been God. The cause is always much greater than the effect which is why God is a higher power than anything else.Without the cause their would be no effect which gives proof to the existance of God.
simply put, this is exactly how i feel because without God being the big picture cause of the existence of the first particle that eventually led into a big boom or whatever the theories are, the whole universe came from nowhere and nothing which has been proven physically impossible.
The concept that stuck out to me was the whole idea of cause being greater than the effect. It almost seems paradoxical because we always see the effect as the most influential part of a cause and effect situation. What I mean by this is that when we see the effect of something, it sticks with us, sometimes shocks us, surprises us, or interests us in another fashion. For example: When Murray kicked over the podium the effect seemed to be the most important part of the instance, at least at first sight. The noise was surprisingly loud and people were startled. Most people were thinking about how the effect of the podium being kicked either woke them up or caught their attention. However, that is only at first glance. After the shock of the effect, we revert to the why and how of the situation which is why the cause is so important to us. We then think, why did he kick the podium? was he angry? did he want to wake us up,get our attention, or simply prove a point that his action was much greater than the actual effect of that podium hitting the floor. The same is with God and the universe. It is fine to believe that the universe was created by a particle so condensed that it exploded into what we know as our universe. But, as always, we revert to how and why and where did this particle come from. Surely it wasn't just there. Where was the initial kick, the one who put that extremely dense particle there in the first place. We ponder over the cause of it all so much more than anyone could ever spend wondering about the actual effect, the universe, where which we presently reside. GOD is the ultimate cause. he is this reason that we ponder on every day.
Dom~ I could not agree more with your logic in this response. The way you talk about the cause and effect we pondered over in class was exceptional. I love how you talk about how everything goes back to God in the end. When you talk about the podium and when Mr.M kicked it over, and how God did not directly create that podium he made us who have the power to make material objects and such. When you said GOD is the ultimate cause really made me think and made me realize that your are right, he really is.
one thing that stuck to me on class on thursday was the concept of the cause and effect. I find it very interesting that everything in our universe has a cause and an effect. what is even more interesting though is to think about the cause of the universe being created. I feel it is very frustrating to think about because no matter wh you are you will never figure out what the answer is.
I agree with the concept of cause and affect, but i think we will eventually find out the answers, perhaps not when we are on the earth but when we get to heaven and we can have all of the unaswered questions this world holds answered
A concept that stood out for me is the cause and effect. Every effect must have a cause, but the effect can not be greater than the cause. That brings up the question of what caused the universe? Thinking about this in class and after the fact, i realized that there is no other cause of the universe other than God himself. God is an eternal being who can create everything. But who or what caused God? That is just something I can not understand. If every effect has a cause, what caused God?! No matter how much I think about this, I just do not understand. My mind goes in circles while I think about this. I do believe in God and in all that He creates, so I just have to rely on my faith to help me understand.
Monica: I completely agree with your question about who or what caused God. I too believe in God and must rely on my faith to help me understand, but with the whole cause and effect concept this question is something I wonder about too. If every cause has an effect and if the effect is never greater than the cause...what caused God? Again, I guess we just have to believe and rely on faith.
What stood out to me the most in our previous lesson was when we compared God to oxygen. This made me belive and think about the existance of God in a more deep aspect. Since we cannot ever see Oxygen that doesnt mean it isnt there, especially because if it wasnt there we would not be able to breathe and therefore not be alive. This relates alot to God since we cannot ever see him but we must belive he is around us by the small miracles that happen every day.
I agree with this comment a lot Joe.
God is also in a way like oxygen because we sometimes forget about him when everything is going good and do not even realize that we are breathing in air. Yet when the oxygen disappears (we stop incorporating God in our life) we then realize that we can not live and function.
As we need air, we NEED God in our lives everyday.
One concept from class that really stood out to me is comparing God to oxygen. We all need air to survive, and we never doubt if it is there. We should feel the same way about God. We need Him in our lives, but we still doubt Him at times. When it is hard to breath, we know we need more oxygen in order to survive, but why don't we do that for God? When things don't go our way or we go through a difficult time, we tend to turn away from God or even blame Him. Why not do the opposite, like how we do for air? When struggling with a difficult time we should automatically turn to God and trust He is there, like we trust oxygen to be there. A major factor here is trust. Again, we trust air in order to survive and live a healthy and successful life. God is the same way. In order to live here on earth and in heaven, trusting and believing in God at all times is essential.
Jenny: I completely grew with you. Without God we wouldn't be able to survive. He gives us the strange we need even if we do choose to turn from him.
Thinking of cause and effect really stuck with me after leaving class. No matter what you think of in the world, something caused it. Whether it was a new born, a flower, rock formation, or a building; something had to happen for the work to be finalized. How could this not be the case with God? For those who are to the book with science; it is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE to create something from absolutely nothing. Last class actually strengthened my belief that God exists. I use to believe off of pure faith but now I feel like even science points to the existence of some kind of “greater being.”
Another part of the lesson that really stuck out at me was the idea of Pascal’s wager. How it is better to bet on the existence of God whether then believe he is not real. How could you go wrong? If you guess right then you have a chance at eternal happiness, and if you are wrong then nothing happens. If you pursue the other way and guess wrong…then you are in some trouble my friend.
I agree with you Jimmy. The world would would be far less enjoyable with the absence of believing in God - especially during the rough times in our lives. This also did strengthen my belief in God because we can explain many things around us through science, but not the creation of the world itself and our afterlife.
One concept of your lesson really stood out to me today: how science has sought to analyze the effects of the creation of the universe, however, it does not leave room for there to be a cause of creation. In several debates with my father, who considers himself to be a non-believer in God and Christianity as I stated earlier, he has often told me that the universe was created naturally by processes that can be explained scientifically.
The debate then went to me asking,"well, if the Big Bang created the universe, who started the Big Bang?"
He has never really given me a sure answer to this question, other than the fact stating how the universe was simply able to create itself. First off, let me just say that I respect my dad dearly and I think that he has looked closely at Christiniaty and found certain discrepancies, causing him to doubt.
And it isn't like I haven't had my doubts either, but, I think have legitimized my belief in God quite clearly and honestly through a lot of thought.
Also, can I just add that while your lesson certainly reinforced my belief that there is no other constant other than God that created the universe, I have a question about. Won't we always have questions about God's existence and why He does what he does. As humans, won't we always be questioning because we can only understand so much, right?
One thing that really stood out to me from the class discussion was how everything, even the universe was aging. In class, you said that since the universe is aging and getting older that it would eventually run out and have and end. Even though that is probably quite some time from now, what happens when it does? Will God simply create a new universe? Another thing it made me think was what if God was actually aging and would ultimately have an end? Even though he is thought of as eternal God had to of been somewhere or there had to of been something there for God to put the universe into, atleast I think, but Im not really sure. Truly God is the only being that knows the fully true answers to these questions, but this is what I thought of from todays discussion
chris brings up a good question, does god age and have a death also? god has been here for ages but does that mean he could only have days left? what if we're praying to someone that isnt even alive or with us anymore? the idea of god aging and having an end makes me think of so many more questions. i believe that god will remain forever but it is the "what if's" that give me the slightest doubts.
One concept that stood out from our class conversation is how causes never occur after the effect and how the effect is never greater than the cause. Honestly, these thoughts have never occured to me before. However after pondering i have come to an understanding.
Cause never occurs after the effect: God is eternal and created the universe. He can not be created after the universe because He was always there and always will be. Another example is that an individual person can only be born once physically (unless you believe in reincarnation). After you are born and living your life, you can not be born again because you are still there. After you die, your body will decay and therefore can not physically be born again.
The effect is never greater than the cause: This makes sense because like the universe, it did not create itself so something greater had to create it. In a simpler example, if you kick a ball with greater force, the effect will most likely be that the ball will travel far. However, if you kick a ball with no effort, the ball will most likely land close to where you kicked it from.
I agree with you Julia. God cannot of been created because of the impact the name "God" has. The term god goes back ever since some part of the world believed some aspect of life is personified by a force. With God being apart of our lives we live in an effect caused by something greatest
The main aspect from our class discussion that stood out to me was the idea of 'cause and effect.' I myself have no doubt that there is a God. However, I believe the principle of 'cause and effect' is a very practical way of proving the existence of God. As far back as you can go, there is a cause for everything. You can not hit a home run in baseball without first making that initial contact back at home plate. The same goes for the creation of our universe. No matter what one thinks or says, there was a first initial cause. This principle of 'cause and effect' is also a very useful tool in explaining the existence of God to Atheists because of the practicality of it. The essential substance of the concept is that there had to be a superior cause for our universe. As Catholics, we believe that this cause was God.
The concept of the universe as the effect of an ultimate cause stood out to me the most this past class. As vast as the universe is, the idea that something had to have been greater than that is definitely an idea that takes some deep contemplation! It's intriguing to think that the universe will have an end--and therefore must have had a beginning (and vice versa for either logic)--when considering that the universe cannot have created itself.
I'm pretty sure your post is just a more coherent version of mine, or at least what I was trying to say!
A concept that stood out to me and I had difficulty wrapping my head around was the idea of cause and effect. I really do have faith in God and I believe He created the Universe. I understand the fact that He is the ultimate cause of our existence, but the whole class i was wondering, 'could God just be an effect of an even greater cause?' if so, does this mean God has a mom and dad? or maybe every galaxy has it's own God and all the Gods are just brothers to each other and it's a big family of higher powers that created everything. it seems kind of silly to think that far into it but i feel like that my mind will always wander and question this concept of cause and effect.
I definitely agree with Caitlin. I wonder about cause and effect too. We are taught that God has always existed and will always exist but that's really hard for me to wrap my head around. How can God have always existed? What if God is an effect of an even greater cause? WhatWhere did God come from? I believe that God created the universe but I can't understand that God has no beginning and no cause. Everything that I can think of has a cause so the fact that God has no cause is really confusing.
Caitlin- I love this post because I never thought about the option of God being the effect of a greater cause. I also hate this post because now I can't stop thinking about what that greater cause would actually be and how big the universe actually is. And if God is the effect of a greater cause, couldn't that cause also be the effect of an even greater cause?
The idea that the cause is greater than the effect stood out to me. Is the cause ALWAYS greater than the effect? One could say that thoughts cause actions, and I think the action speaks louder. The act of telling someone that they're beautiful could definitely affect a person more than the effort it took to say the words. I get where Mr. Murray was going with this point in that God is greater than the universe but it made be question that theory. Is there evidence to prove that the cause is always greater than the effect? Or is it just an idea to prove the existence and power of God? I honestly don't know. I do believe, however, that the creator is always greater than the created, if that's what he was getting at. The whole cause-effect relationship just made me think.
One concept that stood out to me was that the idea of the universe being created out of nothing violates the principle of the conservation of matter and energy. I had never thought about the universe like that but it makes a lot of sense. If matter and energy can’t be created or destroyed, how could the universe, which is matter, create itself out of nothing? God must have created the universe because, according to science, matter cannot be created out of nothing. There had to have been an intelligent being to put the universe together.
What I found interesting about the class discussion and prezi were the three explanations of the universe. I have had those three possibilities in the back of my head, but I have never actually reasoned them out like we did in class. I know that neither faith or science will ever completely prove/disprove the existence of God, but it is a wonderful thing to be able to discuss and figure out the key aspects of faith and science related to God.
C. Fog. I completely understand where you are coming from. My family is pretty much strong Catholics, but, the discussions you have with your father and I with my friends always comes down the the same thing. Everything can be explained scientifically EXCEPT the very start, whatever it may have been. Now, I don't criticize people or yell at them because I try very hard to respect their opinions. I just wish that some of the people I talk to would have more of an open mind. Almost everyone I have talked to that believes that it "just happened" have no other explanations. I tell them, the explanation is the original cause, it is God, whatever God is. I think many people only think person, or being, when I say the word God. Yes, God sent us his son in human form, but God should not be attached to all these human aspects. I just wish, sometimes, that the other side of the argument would be more open minded.
Straight up, Charlie. Sometime I wonder which side is actually being more parochial.
The main topic that stood out the most to me was the topic of how the universe was created. There seems to be no real explanation to why what is here is hear, As stated in the Prezi, I believe that it is obvious that the universe is not eternal. You cant simply get something from nothing. As previously stated in the presentation, there has to be a cause to create an action, and the only away an action can be created is if something caused it. If there was nothing at all before the universe was created, there is no possible way to describe how it was created, just because of the idea on how the infinite loop of cause and effect had no entry point. This leads to a straight for reason suggesting the existence of God. Without God, who or what would have started the loop to creating the universe?
I also do not think that the universe is eternal, because like we discussed in class everything needs a casue to start it into motion, but unlike you I can't as easily accept that God started the first cause, because who started God, with the theory of casue and effect there needs to be a casue to start God, and a cause for that cause and so on and so on.
The concept that we spoke of in class that I can not wrap my head around is that fact that someone or something exists without being caused or created by someone or something else. I do also understand though that something must cause the first effect, thus not being caused itself.
Dan i was just thinking the same thing. If it is true that eveything was created by a higher power and a God then who created God?
A concept that stood out in class for me was the fact that causes never occur after the effect and how the effect of that cause is never greater than it. I've come to terms that everything has a cause to it, be it a pencil dropping or a supernova occuring in a distant galaxy. Something greater then the effect caused it to happen. After thought of what this greater power could possibly be, I have come to the conclusion that it can only be God. I feel this way becasue the bank of knowledge God has is far greater then anything any human has ever experienced or acquired, making God the most powerful and intelligent life in existance. These characteristics allow God to start the "train" of cause and effect, making him the sole origin of creation.
A concept that stood out to me in our class discussion was the fact that God is eternal. If this is to be true then it brings up the question, "who created God?", because it is difficult to just believe that he was just always here. It makes me wonder what he did all that time, before we were created. What if we were just something to fill up time, and he just wanted to see how things would play out, as if we were his own personal reality tv show.
Another topic that I liked in our class discussion was wonderinng if any of this is real. Saying that this could all just be someone's dream, even though this seems so real to us, it could just be one big and very elaborate dream. This class discussion just really made me think and made my head hurt, but I thought about everything and this was my outlook on what was said.
The idea that God is eternal has intrigued me as well. Our minds are so confined by the limits of time that it is often difficult for us to imagine something without a beginning and without an end. In our world, every living thing will die. Anything that was started will eventually stop. We see once-green plants shrivel and wilt. Our cars run until we apply the brakes or they run out of gas. The sun will burn out eventually. Nothing in our world goes on forever. If this is so, then how is it possible that God has always been and always will be? How can He have no beginning and no end? I wonder these same things when thinking about heaven. We are told that heaven is an eternal paradise, but how many of us have actually thought about what that means? If heaven is eternal, then it doesn’t end. It goes on forever. There is always a tomorrow. It does not stop or die out. In all honesty, this frightens me, in a sense. I am not scared of dying or what comes after death. I do not deny God’s existence in the slightest. It is the sense of time surrounding these things that boggles my mind.
I agree with Niarra. It is definitely difficult to believe that God has always been around because it is such a complex idea. It is a strange way of thinking that we may be part of a dream-or just part of a game-but it is comforting to believe that every individual has a purpose and a journey to fufill. From purpose stems a sense of hope.
One thing that really stood out to me in our class discussion that stood out to me was the law of cause and effect. I found it puzzling logically because what I took away from that was there must be a cause for everything, even God Himself, right? I spent my weekend pondering this deeply and still have not come to a reasonable conclusion. It's hard to come away thinking that anything, tangible or intangible for that matter, can exist forever. Nothing lasts forever, well at least in the logical sense. Eventually everything breaks down into something and energy is transfered. It's extremely difficult for me as a human without infinite knowledge and perception of everything to even grasp the concept of "forever" or "eternal". To assume that God created the universe begs the question that is "Where did God come from?" Did He even come from anywhere for that matter? This is where the concept of faith comes from. Many find it easy to accept that God is the creator and He is eternal, but for me, it's not. I struggle with the concept of faith, and have struggled with it ever since I matured and formed opinions of my own. It's hard to believe that anything is eternal, because I cannot even begin to conceive the idea of "eternal". I do not by any means refute God, rather, I have the issue of being unable to fully and completely understand the meaning of forever. This is the root of my inner struggle with faith. I truly believe that something had to create the universe, something unable to comprehend or understand. I know in my heart I wasn't put here because of some lucky coincidence. It is pertinent to note however that the chances and probability of my parents meeting, getting married, and having me as a child are very slim. The fact that I am here is a miracle that didn't just happen randomly for no reason. I believe that there must be something that had it's hand in my creation, be it God, or some other omnipotent god-like being. I know I have a purpose on this big blue rock that we call Earth. Talking in class really solidified this belief because logical arguments were presented in favor of God existing. It is impossible to fully understand who or what God is. Whatever my purpose is here, I hope I fulfill it. Whatever may happen after I die, I welcome it with open arms because I know deep down I will get my answers.
The part of the class that really meant someting to me what when Mr. Murray related God to air. We cannot see air, but we know it's there and trust that it is there, otherwise we would not be living. God is the same way, we know that there is some higher being out there that has made all that we know, here on earth. wether you fugure how things got here scientifically or not, something had to create matter and science. Some higher being, so mething the human mind will never truly understand or be able to prove, created all that we know in our lives. It drives me crazy to think that there is a being out there (God) that has always been and always will be, and He knows all of us individually and has a special and unique plan for all of us, that is different from any other human.
The aspect of last class that really stuck out to me the most was the idea of cause and effect. The fact that this is such a simple concept but can be followed back to the most complicated question of how did the universe come into existence. Another reason this topic interests me so much is how much the concept of cause and effect can really only lead to the answer of God being the creator of all things. The idea of no effect being greater than the cause explains how God is greater than all things in universe. I had never thought about it that way before and i feel this is the most useful piece of information i have received in any theology class and strengthened my belief in God immensely.
The concept of cause and effect really caught my attention. We can identify cause and effect in our everyday life through looking at our actions. If we turn our key, our car will turn on. The concept of cause and effect dealing with the creation of our universe is mush harder to explain. Many people believe that our universe was created through the Big Bang. It blew my mind to realize that even the Big Bang, or whatever created the universe, had to have a cause. This is where the belief that God is present in our universe comes into play.
The concept of cause and effect also intrigued me. It is amazing to consider what could have caused the big bang. It is hard to grasp that time goes infinity back, and maybe the initial cause was in fact time itself.
the concept that caught my attention was the idea of cause and effect. we as humans believe there is no uncaused effect, however; when it comes the faith God does not need a cause. i believe that humans will never understand the existence of God especially if all that is focused on is science because what it really comes down to is faith. we have to open our hearts to God and we will see the true existence of him through love.
One thing in class that truley astonished m was the idea of cause and effect. When you really think about it there is no other real explination then a God. Even if thre are all these crazy and billions of God's that other religions beleive in there was to be one thing that started everything. The world and all of its complications culdnt just come out of no where, there has to be something more powerful and greater then this whole worls. That idea in itself just gave my phycological proof and convicing me that there HAS to be a God.
The aspect of our discussion that really caught my attention was the statement that no effect is greater than its cause. I never thought of it that way before. For example, whenever I take a test and I do well on it I am very excited but I never think about the cause. I never say to myself, "Wow I never would have gotten this grade if I didn't get this answer right." I never think like that. I always see the effect of something I do and imagine that it is bigger than what caused it to happen.
This does however perplex me. In business if someone buys stock and the value of that stock increases the next day and they make a fortune that person will only think of that fortune. What I mean by this is, that when a person has a positive or negative outcome from something that they caused they never really think of the cause. I tend to think only of the effect because in my mind it is greater than the cause.
I agree with your statment about how some people, including myself, somethimes think that the effect is greater than the cause. However we have to remember that the cause is always greater than the effect because we, as humans, would not exist if it werent for the un-caused first cause
The concept that stood out to me the most was the idea that the universe could not have created itself and must have an eternal and uncaused first cause. Since the universe is so vast and undiscovered, it can sometimes be difficult to try to understand its creation. Proving God’s existence seems like a daunting task as well. However, relating God to the creation of the universe seems to offer us an answer. I found the quotes from Robert Jastrow, a NASA scientist and atheist, quite interesting. He stated that the universe is eternal and that it was not created out of nothing. If this is so, then how did the universe come about? As aforementioned, there must be some eternal and uncaused first cause. There can be no effect without a cause. If the universe is an effect, then what is the cause? I believe God is the answer. He is the original cause, the creator of the universe. I don’t believe God created the universe in seven days or that Adam and Eve were the first humans. Science suggests that the universe is billions of years old, and I don’t deny that. I think the creation stories in the Bible are meant to offer moral and spiritual guidance as opposed to an actual description of the first days of the world. I believe God has always been and always will be. He instigated the formation of the universe and will continue to watch over and guide us for all eternity.
I have always believed in God, and I believe I always will. I have never needed or asked for physical proof of His existence. Will we ever be able to fully prove His existence beyond a shadow of a doubt? Probably not. There will always be agnostics, skeptics, and atheists. On the other hand, there are reportedly over 2 billion Christians in the world. That means that about one-third of the world’s population believes in the God that I believe in. I am left thinking of Jesus’ words – “Blessed are those who do not see but yet still believe” (John 20:29).
I feel that the topic that stood out to me the most during our class discussion was the whole "cause and effect" theory. Everything happens for a reason. But with every cause, there's an effect. and with every effect, there is a cause. Everything and everyone on this earth is here for a purpose, we are all special one way or another. God is the cause for everything and almost everything in this world, can go back to him. Without him, there would not be anything we have today. Hense the "effect".
One concept that stood out from our conversation was the concept of cause and effect. How the universe came into existence is such a puzzling question.Everything has a beginning and an end. But to think that the world in which we live in, the universe that surrounds us, and all other things seen an unseen have been created but a being that does not have a cause is absolutely mind boggling. I am a strong believer in God, and I believe that He has always been and always will be God whether I understand it or not. Faith is not always understanding, it is simply believing.
I totally agree with you, Lauren. Understanding is not a requirement for belief in God. In fact, it would be pointless for a person to insist on having a complete understanding of God. I think a lot of people tend to want to shrink God down to a more "manageable" level instead of accepting that there are dimensions to God that no human can ever hope to understand. If a person is going to declare a belief in God, they need to accept the mystery of it. That's the whole point of faith.
Lauren I agree with you, Faith is not always understanding but it is simply trusting in what you believe in. How the universe was created is truly complicated and nobody really knows the EXACT answer.
I like the part about questioning the need for empirical evidence and the quote about having enough evidence to have the high probability of a fact to prove it. Obviously, faith is MUCH needed to believe in God. The only reason people do not believe in God is because they do not have faith. Without solid facts backed by proof, a lot of people can not find any other way to prove the existence of God, and so they do not believe.
At the same time, where is the empirical evidence for such things as imaginary numbers, dark matter, or other scientific "facts". I agree that faith is needed to believe in God, but those who believe in science but not God are basically groundless in their beliefs. Scientists tell us that these things exist based on "evidence", yet we are surrounded by the evidence of God's existence.
The one concept that really stood out to me was the concept of betting on the existence of God. This concept has really strengthened my faith in God. Betting that God exists is a win win situation all around. Betting that God exists and being right means you will most likely have eternal happiness with God in heaven eventually. But let's say you bet that God doesn't exist, and you are wrong. This could end very badly for you. I thought about this for a while after class, but it makes sense in every way that I can think of.
I share a similar opinion with Lydia because having a strong belief in God gives you a spiritual life here on earth as well as eternal life in Heaven. Those who bet against God miss out on their chance at faith, as well as their eternal life with Him. If you are for God, then nothing can stop you because you have Him.
What struck me most about the class discussion was the idea of antecedent cause as a basis for understanding God as the initiator of the universe. The concept of eternity could mean not only that the universe has no end, but also that it has no beginning. I sort of envision it as a loop and not in a linear way. To say that the universe had to have a starting point does not make sense to me.
Ultimately, belief in God is not something that can rely on proof or physical observations. It's simply a decision to believe in something unknowable and outside of human understanding.
One concept that really stuck out to me was when we compared God to oxygen. Oxygen is something that has been surrounding me since the moment of my birth, just as the Lord has been with me. Oxygen is there at all times, and I know this because without it, I wouldn't be able to survive. It is the same with God, and I must remember that. No matter what is happening or when it is, God is still there with me, watching over me, protecting me, and guiding me. There may be times when we question God's existence because something terrible has recently happened in our lives, but we cannot. We have to remember that he is ALWAYS there for us. Another great similarity between oxygen and God is that I can see neither of them, but i must trust that they are there. I have to have faith in the Lord that he is doing all of those things that I mentioned before: watching over me, protecting me, and guiding me.
What I was most interested in during class was the whole cause and effect concept. I never thought of cause and effect while thinking of the creation of the world. We have to have faith in God because we will never understand how great God is and how He always existed
I was very intrigued by the idea of betting on God and his existence. If you believe in him and bet that he's real, you have more to gain than you can ever imagine. But if you bet that he doesn't exist, you most likely go to hell unless God searches your soul and knows you truly believe. I also like how we compared God to science. Although science does is a mind blowing concept, but there is a higher power beyond all of us that made it possible.
Regardless of whether or not someone believes in a god, I believe that a moral and honest existence will be okay by the standards of any supreme being
One topic from today's class that really stood out to me was the comparison of God to oxygen. I don't understand how we can compare God to something that we have scientific evidence for. Another thing that really stuck with me was that there must always be a cause greater than the effect. How can we trace all possible things back to God, but we have nothing to credit the creation of God too
The initial idea expressed in the Prezi that empirical evidence is indeed not the only way to prove something is striking, and the philosophy surrounding that argument intrigued me. Classically speaking, we cannot see God, physically touch Him, hear Him or use any of our other natural human senses to detect Him. By the law of empirical evidence then, God must not exist. This is an incredibly narrow-minded explanation, or what I like to call a hiding spot, for those who attempt to deny God's existence and ever-presence.
Sure, we can explain away and rattle off any number of scientific theories and postulates, but in the end, we can prove God's existence simply in our every day lives. It all comes down to our faith. Whether it is reassuring presence or new-found absence of an influential person in our lives, an especially striking view of nature, a piece of literature that rings true in our lives, a feeling of belonging in a specific community and time, or an acceptance of the idea of cause and effect, we can reach a state of prima facie in our belief and understanding of God in our everyday lives. In the Gospel of John, Jesus tells a crowd that those who have not seen, yet believe, are blessed. That same idea is true for all of us. Though we cannot physically view God, we see His work through others each and every day. Though we cannot physically feel the presence of God, He touches our hearts every time we pray, are experiencing extreme emotions, or strengthen our bonds with others. It is in these ways that God's existence can be proven, quite simply in our daily lives.
Noah I couldn't agree more, the empirical evidence view was incredibly narrow minded and almost laughable. I like the bible reference you used to help establish the point that we do not need tangible evidence to prove God's existence that fact that we are here now is enough to prove the existence in itself.
For me what stood out was the fact that our universe is not eternal and we are the result of a realm of existance that is . I have always accepted this to be true but the concept that i do not agree with is intelligent design. As humans we have a tendancy to seperate ourselves from the rest of the universe. When I look outside and see all of the open space that separates me from a tree across the street I feel like an individual staring at another individual (the tree). In reality I am an accumulation of many things (oxegen, carbon, whatever makes me up) that are directly touching the air i breathe, the air that just surrounds me, and then then whatever that makes up what I see as the tree. I am not really seperate from anything in this universe and therefore not really an individual. When thinking more about our existence, I have realized that our existence is exactly that, everyone and everything together at once, existing in one singular moment, immesurable by time. How could we be made in Gods image unless god's image is not one that human's really reflect?
The element that stood out to me from the Prezi was the idea of God being the first cause. We as people accept that law for every effect there was a great cause to make this effect happen. So what better way to show God's presence in the universe by establish the fact that there needs to be this first cause. The first uncaused cause is God he always was and always is, and the universe was an effect of his power. This also shows the power God has, science has proven the universe to be nearly endless and yet this wall all caused by God. in addition, while the universe is so vast everything lined up perfect in our solar system to allow life. So maybe we were the indirect effect God created when caused the first cause.
Mark, I like what you said that "maybe we are the indirect effect God created when caused the first cause". Sometimes i think that is what we are. I think that the whole reason why we are here is because somewhere in the vast universe the circumstances to sustain life happened (do to the cause). I think about all of the possible scenarios that would have not resulted in life and realized that out existence was inevitable because if it had not happened we could not possibly be here to realize that we do not exist.
Hi Mark, I like and agree your opinion on "what better way to show God's presence in the universe by establish the fact that there needs to be this first cause". I feel that God's presence is all around us, but many times we are too caught up in our busy lives to step back and take notice.
There were a couple of things that stood out to me during our class disscussion of the exsistence of God. The first thing was when God was compared to oxygen. It was an extremeley easy concept to grasp and i was suprised i never thought about God that way. We as humans know that we need oxygen in order to survive, however we can not see it around us. This proves true to the existence of God as well. We cannot physically see him with our own eyes yet I know that he is there. Another concept that I never really thought about was what if the air we breath is actually Gods breathe giving us life.
The last thing that stood out from our class disscussion was the fact that the cause can never be greater than the effect. Something created the univerese. Something created humans. Those two statements are fact, however what exactly did create the universe? Most people I know would say "the big bang" created the universe. Well, then what caused the big bang to happen. This is where God and my faith come into play. I know that someone had to create or cause everything that has happened around us and I believe and know that that someone was God.
I agree with you Jonah, the fact that we can't see God but still believe that he is around really shows that faith we have towards him, though I still am not sold on oxygen being his breath of life into us. I also believe that he is the one true cause of the universe, pre-bigbang. God is not physically visible to us but he has shown through his works that he is always there.
there were 2 things that really stuck out to me when we had our class room conversation.
The first one was in the power point when it said that nothing can't create anything and if there was nothing in the beginning there would be nothing now. That really made me think and it makes a lot of since to me. Things don't just come out of thin air, they are cause by something.
The second thing I found interesting is when we were talking about how we can't see air but we know it is there. I never taught of it that way and it made me see that there are things that we can't see but we believe it is there, so it can also be done with God.
The thing that stood out to me the most in class was the whole idea of not knowing who created the world but knowing some other power did. Whether this power is God or whether it is the Big Bang Theory. I use to believe that scientifically it was caused by the big bang theory but now i question it. We started discussing oxygen and how we know it is there but we have never seen it or held it. Oxygen is easy to believe so why isnt god? i sat in class thinking about this for the longest time but still cant wrap my mind around it. There are so many unanswered questions and i think that is part of why i have no idea what created the world.
I agree with you Brittany on the oxygen point of view. I myself really thought about the correlation between the belief in the existence of God compared to the belief that we breathe air without seeing it.
One topic that stood out for me was the actual existence of God and the catholic worship of him. Im not someone who rejects the idea of a higher power but I don’t think it’s right or fair to use an idea of God as a higher power to explain why tragedies and good things happen, or why people are created and what an individual stands for. I believe bad things happen because people make bad decisions and it negatively affects them, and I believe positive things happen because a person has chosen to live or act morally. I so strongly believe that morals are rooted in humanity rather than religion. I have never been driven to do good because it is what God would want, I have been driven to do good because of the examples of kindness that I have seen and been graced with. Also, I am driven morally by love for others and respect for humanity and myself. To me the existence of God as a prime force behind morality and what transpires in our life seems pretty crazy.
The one concept that stood out to me about our conversation in class was the whole idea of how no one can really answer how some things work on our earth and we never really question what is oxygen and such. An eye opener for me was when you showed the picture of the heart and i thought now how is this possible that everything in our bodies is just perfect? It does not make sense how people just think its Science that created our earth. Like you said Mr.M Science and Theology are married and you really opened my eye to both views.
The class conversation about being able to feel or sense God (or wind, the other example), and it made me think about what Madeleine l'Engle wrote in the book Ring of Endless Light. In it, the youngest child wonders to Vicky aloud about explaining sight to a world of blind people, and how a sense as important as sight means absolutely nothing to them. He goes on to say that maybe when we die, we gain a sense that's just as important to sight but is unfathomable to us right now because we're humans and we have lived our entire lives without it. I was thinking about it, and maybe this missing sense is God. We just have to believe what others that are lucky to possess a trace of this "sixth sense" (a true sixth sense), just as the blind people would have to believe our explanations of sight.
It's hard to believe in what we can't see or what we can't sense - that's just how humans are. However, I believe that you can feel God through thoughts. How can you explain thought? Everybody thinks. What created thought? God created thought so that we might be able to understand that there is something out there beyond us.
I agree with you and enjoy your literature reference :] But I like how you tied in the idea of thought as a purposeful creation of God. I often wonder how simple electrical sparks can make us think such complex things. I also want to add that I feel like God is something you have to "experience". The feeling of God to me could be compared to being half asleep and in your limited-consciousness stupor, you reach for something warm. It's that comfort of being warm. That, to me, is what God feels like.
What stood out for me the most during class was the explanation of the law of cause and effect. It was definitely interesting to take in the fact that the cause is always greater than the effect. Therefore, whatever happened to create the universe was so vastly great to cause such a large, almost unexplainable effect. yet, I wonder, If the cause (God) is greater than the effect (Universal creation), What is the origin of God?
The part of that stood out to me the most was definitely the cause and effect. The law of cause and effect states that "Every material effect must have an adequate antecedent cause." which means that the cause has to come before the effect. This quote reminds me of newtons third law which states "every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction". These two are very similar because there is a relationship between an action and an effect furthermore I regard these two statements showing the balance of nature and our universe. Yet the beginning of out universe cannot be explained by science, there must be a greater entity(God) that had to take an action for our universe to be the effect.
What I drew from the class discussion and others’ comments on here is that you still need faith even after using arguments with science and logic, which aren’t really enough to prove God is what created the universe. We know that some occurrence is, but we don’t know much about it or what started it. And suggesting that God is the catalyst of our universe’s existence only raises more questions for me. If we are thinking with the logic that something (the universe) can’t be created out of nothing, why don’t we apply the same thinking to God? By our reasoning, God can’t have existed forever either, unless something started Him.
While I understand where you're coming from, I'm afraid that I must issue a direct and firm, "Why not", in regards to your doubt of God always existing.
I think the question that is on everyone's mind is who created the universe? That is what this PowerPoint really made me think about. To some it may be God and to others it's just some force. The answer depends on the person's beliefs. However, no matter what your faith is, someone or something did create this Earth. Of course we would wonder who and why? It's natural because we are human. We want to know what happens and why it happens. The only complication is that we will never know the real reason. The one who will always know is the creator. Our universe lies in the hands of the creator and the creator is the one who dictates what happens here on Earth and everywhere else. Something put us here for a reason whether you believe it's God, a force, or some other unknown thing or person. Whatever you want to believe in is fine, that's what makes us all unique. However, we all need to understand that we were put here for some purpose. Whoever created this universe wanted us here. We were chosen to be put on this Earth and live.
"Why though? Why are we here? What is our purpose?"
Those questions are for us to figure out throughout our time here. That is why I believe we are here, to find our place and who we are. The universe is a big place and something even bigger must have created it. That is something that will always make our minds wonder.
Natalie, I definitely agree with your idea that we each have a purpose here and we must continue to question the creation of the universe. While everyone has their own ideas about how exactly the universe came to be, I believe that most people know it had to begin with something or someone greater than what we are able to understand. I personally believe in God as our Creator and believe He created each of us for a purpose. I feel that I can question exactly how He created the universe all I want, but I also feel that His actions are too complex for us to understand. Faith must play an enormous part in your life if you are able to accept God as your Creator without knowing all of the details. Sometimes I feel like God does not want us to know all of the answers because believing in Him without knowing everything is a sign of true faith. I believe we should always be asking life’s deepest questions such as why exactly are we here, and although we may never know the exact answer, I think we will be able to understand more complex ideas on our search for answers to these challenging questions.
I like your point that while on Earth we should do our best to figure out our roles in the universe. It's true that we don't have a lot of time individually and it's important that we take advantage of the time we do have to consider our importance and purpose.
The point in class that interested me the most was the cause and effect theory. I firmly believe that everything comes from something else. In my opinion there is no way possible that anything on this earth was created from a "bang." There was someone or something that was the start to all the mysterious beauty that surrounds us. Bringing religion into the creation of the earth and how people got here makes everything even more complicated. Some do indeed find it hard to believe that there is a God or some mysterious figure that created it all. I have even questioned it all. AM I wrong for doing so? No, I am human, Religion is all about trusting and believing in what you were TAUGHT. Science is the same thing. It came from somwhere; someone just happened to name it and create a long confusing theory that SOUNDS right. How do we know if it is true or not? We don't but because of what we were taught, we absorb, we learn, and we trust. Religion is the same exact way. Nobody really knows what is true or not. We are just willing to open our hearts and trust what makes us feel right.
All in all everything comes from something. The creation of love, a child, talent, doesn't just come from air, something/someone caused it to be. I tried to explain this the best way i could although it turned into venting. These are just my opinions, no offense to anyone.
Collin, i love your post, i think part of these forums are for us to get our opinions out and be open to everyone's idea, so i liked the venting. But what really stuck out to me in your post was the idea that we trust in religion just like we trust the scientists who come up with these crazy ideas that they just pull out of nowhere. They come to a point where they believe they figured something out, something that has always been there, but now they just name it. Just like naming theories and chemicals, elements, and formulas, we put a name to the creation of the universe. GOD. He is our creator because that is what we have been taught and now it can be proven because like Mr. Murray said, science and theology go hand-in-hand and are married.
I agree with Julie’s statement that religion and science go hand and hand, but I would have to disagree with the connection the Julie and Collin made between science and religion. The two of you stated that one must trust religion just as someone dedicated to science must trust the ideas created by the scientist before them. However to me, I see religion being more as an idea and science being more as an idea that can be proven and tested by others in order to approve or reinforce its truths. Science is not just crazy ideas or theories thrown out into society, it involves an entire method developed in order to eliminate as much error as possible and also creates ways in which experiments can be repeated and proven so that others may understand whatever “idea” has been proposed. Religion on the other hand relies solely on faith. One does not need to prove religion because it is impossible to do so. In order to be dedicated to religion, all one needs is faith.
My favorite part of last class was the discussion on "sensing" God. I read this book once, by the genius who is Aldous Huxley, entitled The Doors of Perception. In the book, Huxley describes an experiment he underwent involving the hallucinogen Mescaline. He talks about how hallucingenic drugs cause different senses to intensify. While people often think hallucinogens, such as LSD, cause "hallucinations", they actually take what is already present and slightly distort it. As Huxley describes, such chemicals "open the doors of perception" because our brain naturally filters out sensory information in order to avoid overwhelming the brain with too much information. Often I wonder if the information filtered out is "God", and the reason we cannot see/hear/touch/etc. God is because it would overwhelm our brain, similar to being on a webpage and inputing too much information at once at a speed that the program can't handle. In this way, I believe that God is all around us, and his divinity is too much to compute.
*I meant to say the sensory organs filters the information.
Curse my grammar mistakes.
The thing that stuck with me was using the laws of thermodynamics to show the universe is not eternal. Since energy must be preserve, something above our laws of physics must have created the energy that makes up the universe. The second law I found especially interesting. It says that everything always moves from order to chaos if left alone . Like we discussed in class, this means that the universe has an end to it. You can also look at this law and see it points to God. If you rewind the universe like a movie, everything would return from chaos back to perfect order--God.
“The effect is never greater than the cause.” This simple phrase stuck out to me. It’s impossible that something less than the human being or something equal to the human being could have created us, or even the universe for that matter. The creator is always superior to the created. I feel that this logical proof is a sound statement that supports a higher power. I believe in God, regardless of all the proof and statistics and nonsense people throw at me. However, this phrase really struck me because it is so true, and it leaves me without a doubt that there is a God. The human body, mind, soul, are each so intricate that they must have been created by a higher power. The world being so complex and precise could not have created itself. Therefore, the universe must be in the hands of a higher power, and in my belief, this power is God our Heavenly Creator.
What stood out to me the most during class discussion was the idea that the cause is always greater than the effect. I have never really thought about that statement before, but it definitely makes sense to me. Sometimes we may think that the effect is greater because we are able to see the effect but not the cause. For example, we are able to see the world around us and we are often in awe of the complexity of the human body or the beauty of nature among many other things. If we are amazed by the earth (the effect), then we should be even more amazed by what caused the creation of the earth. I truly believe that God created the earth, yet because people cannot physically see God, many do not believe Him to be the cause of the earth and the universe. In another sense, for those that believe in God as the Creator, it is extraordinary that a being that we cannot even physically see was the cause of our creation. The fact that God cannot be physically seen actually convinces me even more that He created the universe and that He Himself was never an effect. This may seem backwards as most people want physical proof to believe, but knowing that there is a greater power surrounding us that created all that we can see is absolutely amazing. We cannot really even begin to comprehend God’s abilities as we can never fully understand how He formed all that He did. While I believe God created all things, I do believe in many scientific matters such as the big bang, but I know that there had to be a greater power behind the big bang. The earth was an effect of the big bang, but I believe that God was the cause of the big bang. Although cause must come before effect, God is excluded from this rule as He is much greater than any human reasoning and understanding. He was not an effect, but solely the cause of all matter throughout the universe and He will live eternally.
I agree with you, Darcy. I especially agree with the part of your response when you mentioned even though we cannot see God, you still believe he exists. Seeing is not always believing, in my opinion. In addition, what you said about the big bang theory having one ultimate cause (which is God) makes sense, although I am not sure on what concept I believe in as to how the universe was created. But I do agree with the basic principle that however the universe was created, whether it was the Big Bang, or if it was created out of nothing, as mentioned by Mike, the ultimate cause of the creation of the universe was God.
I wasn't in class Tuesday because of Freshman retreat but after reviewing the prezi, i was pretty much mind blown that something that's always been so hard to prove could be proven. For me, i've never really struggled with the existence of God and that He created the universe. I've always just accepted it. Yes there has been times where i've doubted Him and didn't understand why the things that happened had to happen but i never said there is no God. It's hard to be so involved in my youth group and have a strong faith when my own family members don't even believe there's a god, so after reviewing the facts what stuck out to me the most was, "there is a cause and effect to everything" but the effect can't be greater than the cause so...that leads me to conclude that our superior God created the universe because nothing created Him. He's been the start, He existed before all. He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and end. You don't have to see Him to believe Him, that's what faith is all about. You have to trust that He is there, just like you don't see air, you trust it is there to keep you breathing. I can't see the wifi right now but i know it's on so i can send this forum. But anyways, God is greater than all because He is the start of all and because of Him we have many great effects. He created the universe, the earth, nature, light and darkness, and people, each and everyone of us. So, i'm not afraid to profess my belief that there is a God who created all because even in the bible it is written 365 times "do not be afraid" (in some form or another) and that's one time for every day of the year.
Julie, just like you this prezi blew me away. I love how you said that God is both the beginning and the end. Like you said, God is like the wind, even if we can't see it we always know that it is there just like God.
Julie I love that you said in the bible it says "do not be afraid" 365 times. That's not an accident. God has a plan and purpose for everything and you just have to have faith that everything will be as it should be. God spells out that he is here with us all the time people just don't take the time to see Him in there everyday lives.
The concept that stood out most to me in class was that the cause is always going to be greater than the effect. I never thought of how true this statement is, no matter what it is applied to! When you started talking about how amazing our earth is and how great the human race is, you mentioned that there must be something greater out there that exists in order to create all of this. I began to think about this deeply, and I agree. If we, as humans, are capable of doing amazing things such as building the pyramids and altering genetic codes, there must be something or someone out there that is much more intelligent and more powerful than we are that created it all, and I believe it is God. However, one concept that confused me and made me really think was that there is one great "uncaused cause" which is God. This concept is hard to grasp, but at the same time it is very simple. To me, it says that the universe was created because of something great (God) who has no cause and it will end with something great(God's second coming).
The parallel of God to air is a perfect way to express the way we can believe in God. We absolutely need air to live but we have never been able to see it or feel it. But we still know that it is there. So then why when it comes to another needed concept, God, are we more skeptical about its existence? God also plays a very important role in our life and without him our world around us would not be the same. Gods existence is being proven every day around us, yet, those who are skeptical are unable to see it and they conitnue to go on not believing.
I agree with you as well, Delaney. I especially agree with when you said "Gods existence is being proven every day around us, yet, those who are skeptical are unable to see it and they conitnue to go on not believing. ". Even something as simple as a hug from a friend, in my opinion, is God reaching out to us through others. I think someone who is skeptical of God would view it as just a hug from a friend.
Thinking back on our class discussion, what stood out the most for me was the existence of God intermingling with cause and affect. In my opinion, I strongly believe that there is a higher power who created our universe. If this was a false statement, it just wouldn't make sense at all, not to me atleast. When observing everything on this earth, evidence proves that it all had to start from one source. I am almost positive that I have felt God's presence numerous times in the seventeen and a half years that I've lived. Therefore, I have too much faith in God to rely on unproven myths referring to our universe. Like Mr. Murray said, who are we to say that God didn't create the universe? No human, whether they believe it or not, is intellegent enough to conclude any facts on God or the universe, but I firmly believe due to spiritual experience, that God is the one and only creator.
After watching the prezi, the entire concept that it covered blew me away. Even though my faith has not always been strong in the past, this prezi has helped strengthen my faith. Something that really stood out for me was the concept of cause and effect. We know that everything that we have has been created for some specific purpose. Even though we don't always know why things happen the way they do God knows. God has created a plan for each of us and like a spiderweb, all of our lives are intertwined.
After hearing Mr. Murry’s explanation of the existence of God, a few more thoughts and questions arose within my mind. I am not trying to disprove the existence of God, and I am not trying to discredit Mr. Murry’s explanation. I am only trying to clarify a few of my thoughts and current viewpoints so that I may understand Mr. Murry’s position and reasoning more clearly. What seemed to amaze me, or stand out the most was the fact that from Mr. Murray’s explanation, several theological rules were introduced. Such rules as: Everything must have a cause in order to be the effect of something else; everything has a greater source from which it must have originated from. There were a few other rules that I cannot recall at this time. However, I find it interesting that none of the rules created apply to God himself. Seeing that these rules were created in order to prove the existence of God, I find it hard to accept the fact that God does not abide by the very rules that reason in the favor of his existence. The fact the universe created itself could not be seen as true because Mr. Murry’s rules states that everything must have a source. But also according to Mr. Murry, God does not have to have a source simply because he is God. Why can’t the universe not have a source simply because it is the universe? It just doesn’t make sense to me that such rules could exist to proof the existence of God while contradicting with the very reasoning set forth for his existence. Therefore I believe that it is impossible to prove the existence of God. There is no way for anyone to prove such a thing. If one is to believe in his existence, that belief would have to rely solely on faith and not scientific methods or reasoning. The other rule mentioned stated that everything need to have a cause in order to be and effect. But once again, this rule to prove God’s existence, does not need to apply to God. I’m just having a hard time trying to see past such contradictions.
Jarman, I agree on the point you made about how the cause and effect theory applied to both the universe and God contradict one another. You stated if the universe has a source why can the same suggestion not be applied to the existence of God and I am having the same problem with understanding this as well.
Although it's redundant, I also found the discussion regarding cause and effect very interesting. In science class you hear that phrase over and over, cause and effect, cause and effect. However, we've never really questioned the very beginning of it all. Trying to figure out what the initial cause makes my brain stall. I read that the universe isn't infinite but is continuously expanding. If this theory is correct, what is beyond that? I sometimes I try to think of it as just plain white. But it couldn't be that simple. Who knows, maybe it's a completely new color that we literally can't even imagine?
Anyway, what if that's wrong and the universe is actually infinite? That's also incomprehensible! It's frustrating considering how tiny humans are compared to the earth, the solar system, and then the whole universe. And how can we still be so obsessed with homework and tests when we have the ability to think about all this. In all, I still don't really know what to believe.
The most difficult concept to understand for me is the cause and effect theory. If every cause results in an effect and the cause is always significantly greater, then we can only assume there is something superior over us; a higher power. However, stating every effect comes from a cause why can we not apply that to the existence of God? If God has always been and will always be who is to say the universe cannot do the same? Time is a concept created by humans. I recall a theory from sociology last year saying if we as humans cannot grasp a concept we should not try to grasp it. Although, I do believe God and the universe coincide. I believe God is everything and the universe is everything resulting in the same concept.
What stood out the most to me was the idea that maybe the "oxygen" we breathe in isn't "oxygen" but that it's actually the breath of life. God took His own breath and gave it to Adam giving him life. Without that act of kindness we wouldn't be here now. Who is to say that God doesn't continue to do that for us daily? We don't control how long we are alive and on this earth, God does. God has the power to give us life and he gives us tht gift daily and throughout the day he continues to give us the gift of life. I never thought that the air I breathe could be the breath of God but after having that image put into my head I can't see it any other way. I don't know if I have ever seen the face of God but I do know that I have seen the work of God's hands. I've never seen the wind or oxygen but I've seen what it can do. There's so many things that may not be proved by science because they can only be proved by faith. It's not faith if you use your eyes. You can't see oxygen but you know it's there. I can't see God but I know he's there. I breathe in his breath of life everyday. I don't need a theory to prove that or a experiment to tell me I'm right I know in my heart what I believe is true and no scientist can take that away from me.
My mind was thoroughly blown when I truly thought of the concept that no effect could be greater than the cause. That statement alone could show the existence to a person riding the fence of belief and not, in regards to the universe. Seeing that the universe is so big, you almost have to attribute that work of creation to a higher power. If the effect of the universe was bigger than the cause then there would be a greater mystery to solve. God had to be there to create the creation of the universe. No amount of matter could just appear and explode creating our whole huge universe. The idea of being in this larger being is scary to think about but it is even scarier to think that God is even bigger than that. God can only be the cause of this whole big mess of planets that we are among, and knowing that shows me his love for us.
To me, the concept that really had me thinking was the relation to how we all believe that we breathe this things called oxygen, that is pumped through us every second of the day, yet we have trouble believing the concept of god living through us and watching over us every second of the day as well. We cannot see the air we breathe, but for some reason, the science of it makes it easier to comprehend than God. I myself have true faith in God, but people who have a hard time with the believing without seeing part, a lot of the time have a hard time getting passed all of the scientific theories, instead of putting their faith first.
One topic that stood out for me the most was the relationship between God and science. Scientist can come up with as many reasons as they want to how the world began, but no matter what is said one question still stands. What created that first thing to make all that happen? Even though in the prezi there are three explanations to the existence of the universe the only one that true makes since is the third. something, bigger than the universe itself had to created it. Nothing can just be created by itself.
One concept that stood out from our class conversation is that the atheists, agnostics, skeptics, and theists are players in the existence of God. I completely feel that these relationships between people with different beliefs, but searching for the same answer, is much the relationship between everything else in the world; everythinh is interdependent on something else.
One thing I find intriguing is the quote from Prima Facie, "Such a case exists when enough evidence is available to establish such a high probability of a fact being true that, unless that particular fact somehow can be refuted, it is considered proven beyond reasonable doubt." This quote strikes me as being entirely true about ourselves and our beliefs. The statement says that the evidence "establishes such a high PROBABILITY of a fact being true that... it is considered proven beyond reasonable doubt." It essentially says that there's enough evidence to prove something to most probably be true and real. It is not saying there's enough to be proven scientifically true, but that there is so much overwhelming proof that it has to be real.
It also makes me think of our nation's judiciary branch. In the court system, you often hear the judge, jury, and lawyers claim that there is not enough evidence to prove the innocence/guilt of the defendant, although, their innocence/guilt may be so blatantly obvious.
what stood out to me was the many was the (players) atheists, agnostics, skeptics, and theists because of their different beliefs in God. I noticed how people believe what they think is right but others spend a lot of time trying to prove them wrong. All the talks about space, time and personal opions are great and if thats what you feel that is fine also. I personally believe in God because, when I need him the most with out knowing I can feel he is there. It is a higher being that created everything and I would not be here if it wasn't for that being in which I truly believe is God. My life is being guided as it seems as if I'm making my future that is how I know God exsist.
In other word I honestly feel I can not choose one person I agree with because I would feel as if I'm saying someone else is more wrong. Everyone that I read made valid points but I am in no position to judge anyone's method of thinking of God. I AM NOT GOD BUT ONLY WHAT HE WANTS ME TO BE, so he will judge as seen. Good Job everyne!!!
The biggest thing that stood out to me during our last class meeting was do we believe in God, how we knew he exists, etc. Those questions really made me realize how many of us don't actually know the answer. I witnessed students just regurgitating sunday school lessons and teachings, but very few stood their ground in their beliefs. This lack of proactive-ness in faith is unsettling to say the least; the mere fact that so many of us don't know the answer and more importantly don't know how to support our answers.
This is why I'm excited for Senior Theology. So many of us can walk away with solid beliefs, where they can firmly say why they believe in God, how they know he's real, and what he means to them. To take our lukewarm souls and boil them with the knowledge of Christ.
What really stood out to me is the cause and effect aspect. I never took time to actually think about how the universe was created, and the three main ideas were ideas that many people truly take time to think about which one they believe is correct. Seeing the statement that the creation cannot ever be greater than the creator really stood out to me. This is because the world is such an extraordinary creation and everything in it could not just come from nothing. God is greater than all of this, so He did create this wonderful world for us to enjoy and live in. It will always be a mystery though how God was created since He is all powerful, who would be greater to create Him?
This lession reminded me of a story that a college professor said since you can't see God, that there is no God. Then a student said back that you can't see your brain, but you have one right? Just because we can't physically see God, doesn't mean he isn't there. There have been times in my life that I didn't think God was real or there for me. I thought God had abandoned me, but in reality God was just making sure I was "awake". He does certain things because he know that I can handle them, even if I don't want too. God does exist not matter what the skeptics say. I know he's there.
The point that stuck out to me in this lesson was how we actually knew that God existed. This really intrigues me because I never really pondered on how I knew he existes because i always just told He was real and that He existed. But when I do think about it, I would've had a difficult time defending myself on why and how I know He exists. I really hope this class gives me the knowledge to strengthen my faith.
The point made that compares God's existence to the air around us really stuck with me. It was easy for me to see how we know that there is around us, yet we cannot see it, and similarly, we know of God's presence, but we have no empirical proof. We really have no way of knowing there is air, and we also have no real way to see God, but we still have faith that both exist.
The concept that stood out the most to me was the law of cause and effect. This idea of a first mover or first cause had to have a purpose behind it. To me, this thing behind the first move would have had to have been some intelligent being, a being smart enough to see what would happen as a result of the first move. Therefore, this intelligent, all knowing, first mover is God.